Remove .unwanted functionality

Other platforms, generic questions.

Do you want to remove the .unwanted functionality?

Yes
26
70%
No
11
30%
 
Total votes: 37

ciaobaby

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by ciaobaby »

The simplest way would be to simply set the "hidden" attribute on the .unwanted for Windows systems so it is handled the same way as Linux and Mac ( files and folders that start with a '.' are hidden for those who do not know)
(e.g. if the files themselves are shared between torrents, the user should copy, hardlink, or symlink them.)
Right, something that ALL users are very familiar with. :)
C'mon, solutions to anything such as this HAVE to be totally transparent to the users. The lowest common denominator principle has to apply.
sledgehammer_999
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Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by sledgehammer_999 »

[quote="ciaobaby"]
The simplest way would be to simply set the "hidden" attribute on the .unwanted for Windows systems[/quote]

It already sets the hidden attribute.
ciaobaby

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by ciaobaby »

So all the whining and moaning about seeing 'unwanted' files is being done by people who probably should know better, because they 'should' at least be aware of the difference between "hidden" files and 'normal' files, given that they have deliberately chosen to show files and folders they do not actually NEED to be looking at.
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Nemo
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Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by Nemo »

I really don't know why this discussion keeps going on about the unwanted files in the first place. Im happy the way it is, if you (sledge) change the way it works I will still be happy no matter what. Im not bothering with it of that files being on my HDD anyway.

But hey, thats my opinion.
ciaobaby

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by ciaobaby »

I am of the same opinion, I know why they HAVE to be there, understand the when, why and how they will be removed and am baffled by this need to micro-manage such an insignificant part of the process.

It works as expected so why does it need to be changed just because a few uninformed but 'highly vocal' users decide they don't like it?
We all know that changing something that does work IS very likely to 'break' something else for more users. The whole .unwanted non-issue falls into the; "uTorrent doesn't do that so it must be wrong" category of "problem".
sledgehammer_999
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Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by sledgehammer_999 »

I am going to remove this functionality and dump the incomplete files into the main folder.
This will make the code less complex and allow me to fix the "keep incomplete torrents in:" feature more easily.
Whoever wants to keep track of the incomplete files, he can still use the .!qB extension.
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Nemo
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Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by Nemo »

@sledge: Sounds all good to me. I trust you fully when it comes to qBittorrent.

@ciao: Well you know I like discussing about changes and ways to make something (maybe) better than the way it is now but we are getting this kind of discussions alot lately with the idea like; ''uTorrent has it/hasn't so qBittorrent MUST do it the same way (or im leaving..!?)''. And to be honest im not even replying to most of the topics anymore cause of this.
ciaobaby

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by ciaobaby »

Such comments only need a one word reply in any case,



Bye!
AsaRossoff

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by AsaRossoff »

Awesome :)
Yes, I have had no problem with .unwanted to begin with.  Changing ti is great too.  I'll continue to use .!qb if it continues to prove reliable enough.  If anything, if we had .unwanted, my only complaint was that it WAS hidden, as many less technical Windows users do not know about hidden files, and they may need to manage those files in some cases.

Your plan sounds great until (if ever) partfile functionality becomes practical for us.
ciaobaby

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by ciaobaby »

as many less technical Windows users do not know about hidden files, and they may need to manage those files in some cases.
Nope, "less technical" users should NOT try to 'manage' "hidden files" EVER!

'Hidden' files ARE 'hidden' for that very reason. To stop "less technical" users making a pigs ear of the whole thing by "managing" them, and the same goes for the few payload pieces that are in ./.unwanted/ masquerading as 'files', NO ONE EVER needs to 'manage' them, the client manages them perfectly well on it's own.
AsaRossoff

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by AsaRossoff »

ciao, I agree that files are hidden to keep them from the view of end users who should not need to know about them.

However, in this case, there is good reason for them to know about them.
Some examples:
(1) The files become fully allocated/non-sparse (as when moving between volumes on Windows either with qBT or through Windows Explorer).  Possibly resulting in excess disk usage of many gigabytes.  If many torrents with .unwanted were moved, the result is amplified and potentially .unwanted could use more space than the wanted files.
(2) The user moves the files using the OS, but is naive to the existence of the hidden .unwanted folder and does not move it, corrupting the torrent.

These are some of the reasons I support the move to exposing these files as the new plan suggests.
Last edited by AsaRossoff on Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
ciaobaby

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by ciaobaby »

(2) The user moves the files using the OS,
There is no good reason WHY ANY user needs to disrupt a running task in such a way, every BT client has built in methods of moving the entire payload thus ensuring that the task WILL remain intact and functional throughout it's running lifetime, this thread covers what uninformed users manage to do, ... Then claim it is the fault of the client or demonstrates a good reason why the protocol should be 'different'

To be honest, this thread and that thread taken together make a pretty solid case for users taking an 'aptitude test' BEFORE they are allowed to even install a bittorrent protocol client. The method of storing the unwanted pieces does NOT need changing, .... it is the USERS that need educating in the basics of running a BT Client, because no matter what it is called some half-wit errmm user will meddle with it. Even having a monolithic 'file' with all unwanted pieces aggregated in it called
"NEVER_EVER_DELETE_THIS_FILE.and_DO_NOT_SAY_YOU_WERE_NOT_WARNED"
Some clown WILL delete it then protest that:

"qbittorrent 'broke' all my downloads that had files marked as "Not downloaded"

As some one once is supposed to have said:
Software development is a race between programmers making applications 'idiot proof' and nature creating better idiots, ... and so far, nature is winning!
AsaRossoff

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by AsaRossoff »

ciaobaby, points taken.
[offtopic]
However, as a software designer and programmer in a past life, I can say that if software is not designed for the user, then who in the world is it designed for?
My software design and implementation philosophy:
Anyway, it is a balance, but the best software manages to be highly functional as well as highly intuitive and stable, attractive, enjoyable, and minimally intrusive.  It is no small feat to maximize and balance (if necessary) all of these.  The problem is exacerbated when you have a broad range of target users who will use the software differently and have dramatic differences in expertise.  Most highly functional software is nearly impossible to use -- sometimes even for sophisticated specialists in the field the software is meant to serve, who then must study the usage of the program for years before it can serve them as well as their prior tools.  This is often due to both software function and interface design often being developed by professional programmers, and insufficient or nonexistent initial input from, ongoing interaction and creative input from, and ultimately usability studies with the target userbase.

It's no small feat even then to be successful in the endeavor.

Granted, there will usually be users who try to use the wrong tool-job combination, or have an IQ or technology-quotient lower than you targeted, etc.  A flathead screwdriver is rather elegant.  For turning flathead screws.  In a suitable material.  With a thread hole or pilot hole.  It's much worse for dental extractions, hammering nails, or as a heatsync -- not to mention for boiling water.  It *really* sucks at boiling water.
[/offtopic]

Still, no idiot test should be required for torrent users.  The target audience should be nearly everyone, insofar as developers and their collaborators can achieve.

Your proposed file-naming scheme sounds good :D  I named a folder for a friend today "do not edit".
ciaobaby

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by ciaobaby »

However, as a software designer and programmer in a past life, I can say that if software is not designed for the user, then who in the world is it designed for?

When I was developing and programming I was (eventually) aware that I could not really design for end users, the only person I could reliably design or program for was me, the fact that you have the skills or ability to learn how to program to that degree has already set you apart from the average end user, so you look at things differently and what is intuitive or blindingly obvious to you has them with a "now what do I" blank stare at the screen. And vice versa of course, I have often been dumbfounded at how a particular piece of software 'works' yet users treat it as second nature from the outset.
A lot of is because I have already looked beyond the UI and  started to visualise the coding steps that might be required to make it work.
snakyjake

Re: Remove .unwanted functionality

Post by snakyjake »

I'd like to see the .unwanted folder go away too.  I find it confusing to see duplicate files.  I have the same file in both the parent and the .unwanted folder.  This is duplicating storage.

This most likely occurred when at first I didn't want the file...then later wanted it.
But the duplicate might be there because the parent has finished downloading.
And this is why I find duplicates confusing.

Jake
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